Dr. Michael Murray on the Future of Natural Medicine, Peptides, and Healthy Longevity

What does the future of natural medicine look like? According to renowned naturopathic physician, author, and iHerb Chief Science Advisor Dr. Michael Murray, we're only beginning to unlock nature's potential.

In this episode of Supplement Source, CRN's Jeff Ventura sits down with one of the most influential voices in integrative health to discuss emerging science around peptides, the role of food and the microbiome in future healthcare, misconceptions about antioxidants, the promise of longevity nutrients like ergothioneine and PQQ, and why "supplement stacking" can make sense when done intelligently.

Dr. Murray also reflects on nearly five decades in natural health, shares insights from his personal supplement regimen, and explains why laughter, lifestyle, and a positive outlook may be just as important as any supplement.

Whether you're a healthcare practitioner, supplement industry professional, or health-conscious consumer, this conversation offers a fascinating glimpse into where nutrition science is headed next.

Table of Contents

00:00 | Introduction and welcome to Dr. Michael Murray
00:01 | Four decades of progress in natural medicine and what's next
00:03 | Evidence-based nutrition, microRNAs, and the future of personalized health
00:06 | Peptides, GLP-1s, and emerging opportunities in healthy aging
00:09 | Antioxidant myths and the science behind polyphenols
00:13 | The rainbow diet and lessons from nature's pharmacy
00:14 | Dr. Murray's supplement regimen and longevity nutrients
00:17 | Supplement stacking: benefits, risks, and synergy
00:20 | Foundational supplements and protecting long-term brain health
00:22 | Lifestyle, laughter, and the keys to healthy aging
00:23 | Closing thoughts and industry collaboration

About the Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN) 
The Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN), founded in 1973 and based in Washington, D.C., is the leading trade association representing the dietary supplement and functional food industry. Bringing together manufacturers, ingredient suppliers, and service providers, CRN unites its member companies around a shared commitment to science, transparency, and responsible business practices—advancing a strong, credible marketplace that supports consumer health and industry growth.

In an increasingly complex regulatory and media environment, CRN serves as the industry’s front line—shaping science-based policy, defending market access, and countering misinformation. Through strategic advocacy, self-regulatory leadership, voluntary guidelines, and evidence-based communications, CRN ensures that responsible companies are recognized, protected, and positioned to innovate and compete. Learn more at crnusa.org and follow @CRN_Supplements on X and LinkedIn.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Please note the Council for Responsible Nutrition, CRN, does not endorse any guest appearing on this podcast or any products or services they may discuss. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of CRN. Thank you and enjoy the episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

You are listening to Supplement Source, the official podcast of the Council for Responsible Nutrition. And now your host, Jeff Ventura.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hello, and thank you for listening to Supplement Source. My name is Jeff Ventura, and I am the Vice President of Communications here at the Council for Responsible Nutrition. I am absolutely delighted to be joined by a very well-known and well-regarded uh man who uh orbits and often intersects the supplement industry, Dr. Michael Murray, the Chief Science Advisor for iHerb. Dr. Murray, thank you so much for joining today. My pleasure, Jeff. We've got a lot to talk about. Um I think maybe I'll start by just saying flat out that you've helped shape the field of naturopathic medicine for decades. You authored numerous books, not to mention textbook of natural medicine, educating practitioners worldwide. Curious, looking back, what changes in the healthcare landscape have surprised you the most and what still needs to change?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Well, uh honestly, uh I'm very happy with the the progress that uh natural approaches to health and healing have made uh since I graduated from Basseter University in 1985. And uh the best from nature is yet to come. Uh, we're just scratching the surface, I think, is in terms of what is possible. I for example, I know peptides are a big uh focus these days. And uh the uh the the truth is is the real treasure trove uh in the peptide realm is is from the foods that we eat and from our own microbiome. And so I think this is going to open up uh a lot of uh opportunities for our for our industry and medicine as a whole and into the future. We're we're going to get there eventually, uh and what I'm talking to uh about getting to is the use of uh these natural gifts that nature has given us uh to promote our health and healing. And uh we we are in the midst of this uh discovery process, and it's it's just a phenomenal uh life uh to be involved in this field, and I'm sure you feel the same way.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Absolutely. And I and I think part of that uh is really appreciating the balance between some of the ethos around traditional healing uh and its intersection with uh evidence-based evidence-based medicine. And so can can you tell me a little bit about that? I mean, in terms of the increasing demands for you know scientific validation in the supplement market today.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

When I first started uh learning about nutrition and herbal products, our knowledge of uh pharmacology and physiology uh wasn't where it was then that it that it is now. And they they just didn't have the sophistication. And the greater our technology and understanding uh has grown, the greater our appreciation for nature. Uh uh one of my favorite books is is my least popular one by sales, and it's that's the magic of food. And in that book, I I put a lot of uh interesting factoids about nutrition and and uh and and the ways in which uh food compounds work in our body. And uh I I remember uh back when I was writing this book, I I uh I found some articles on Chinese honeysuckle, which had long been used in in treating uh respiratory tract infections. And this study was looking at uh uh micro RNA components of honeysuckle as being the responsible factors. Now everybody knows about uh micro RNA uh with with all the uh the the the COVID experience, but you know back then it was it was it was just getting uh started, and what they found was was amazing. They took uh two groups of mice, and they, well, first of all, they they found that uh the Chinese honeysuckle contained these microRNAs and they exhibited significant uh antiviral activity against H1N1. Uh and they then uh took two groups of mice. One group got the honeysuckle extract, the other got uh a control, a placebo. Uh they didn't get anything. Uh and what they found was is that ever all the mice died in the uh in the in the control group, and uh none of the mice died in the in the honeysuckle group. And then they asked, well, what's going on here? And they found that the uh microRNAs were actually uh uh exuded in the respiratory tract secretions and had activity against H1N1. Really amazing, groundbreaking uh research. And and I just wonder of all the food compounds, all the uh botanical compounds that we ingest and the microbes in our gut, what they're producing. I I just really think uh we're gonna have a completely different uh system of medicine in the future. We're gonna be looking at uh not only our our our genetic uh aspects, but also our epigenetic aspects to determine which foods, which supplements, which herbs can be the best utilized for each individual. Uh that's the future I see.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

I want to pull you back to peptides for a minute because uh it, you know, they are, as you mentioned, uh receiving quite a bit of uh attention. Uh certainly uh the influencer community, the main mainstream press, there are people are tuning in to peptides now. Um tell me more about tell me more about your perspective in terms of the potential of peptides.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Well, first of all, I think there's some risks that have to be addressed. And uh uh we have widespread use of these peptides that really haven't been tested, and we we have to recognize that uh any pharmacologically active uh compound, whether it's natural or or synthetic, uh, runs a risk of risks uh for side effects. And uh we don't know the long-term uh side effects of of uh many of these these peptide approaches, including GLP1s. Uh and um you know so that that kind of concerns me. Uh one of the most interesting uh avenues of peptide research uh is the work that Russell has done. They're one of the largest producers of of collagen. And they they came out with a brilliant uh peptide called Nextita, and they showed that it had uh some ability to uh uh accentuate GLP1 activity and help control blood sugar uh levels. And if you look at the results from their their studies, this is basically a drug-like effect. Their effects on uh fasting blood sugar level are phenomenal. Now uh that product never seemed to get much traction in the marketplace, uh, you know, trying to um educate uh not only our industry but also consumers on on what it actually does is very difficult without uh uh uh you know making some comparisons to uh the impact that drugs like metformin or or even Ozempic have on blood sugar levels. Uh but the research itself, I think, is a good example of the potential of using uh food-based peptides in place of uh of drugs or some of these injectable peptides. And and I think that's what we're gonna find. I think we're gonna find uh that that there is a treasure trove of uh peptides that uh can be uh standardized and uh utilized in the dietary supplement industry to promote health.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

And healthy aging, I would assume.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Oh, for for sure. I mean, um yeah, it's it's and you know, most of the active sites for uh protein uh hormone-like compounds and peptides, it's usually just a few uh amino acids. They they bind to a receptor site and they activate it. So um it's not too far-fetched that we'll be focused on uh you know tri pepti amino acid uh peptides, very, very small peptides uh that can be easily absorbed and it produce significant health benefits.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

It's funny we talk about peptides. It's sort of the the latest thing that consumers consumers are grappling with too. You know, they whether they understand it or not is another question. Um you you've done so much uh in terms of your your sort of body of research, all of your writing. What what do you feel are some of the misconceptions in natural health that you still feel are misunderstood by the public even in this modern information age that we find ourselves in?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Well, I'm gonna, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is this whole uh idea of antioxidants. We have a uh there's a couple of things there, so I'll just go on a little riff here and explain what I think are the some of the big misconceptions. The first is that all antioxidants act in the same manner. The truth is that they don't. Uh, there are as many antioxidants as there are musical instruments in an orchestra, and uh we need uh a very broad complex of these antioxidants to provide ultimate protection. Uh so uh some antioxidants are very specific in their action. You know, all the caratenoids are basically singlet oxygen scavengers, whereas you know, we look at some of the polyphenols, they exert significant uh broad spectrum antioxidant. But there's a caveat there. Those in vitro studies mean nothing because we cannot achieve the same concentration in our body that that they can in some of these in vitro antioxidant studies. And that's okay because these are different. Uh I'm a big fan of polyphenols. Uh and one thing that people don't understand is that these compounds, when they're circulating in our body, they're not circulating in a free form. These are highly pharmacologically active compounds. So nature has built in a safeguard. These compounds circulate either bound to glucuronic acid or sulfur molecules. The reason is they are only activated and released at sites of need. And I think that's brilliant. I think that's beautiful, and that's really uh magical. And that's that's one of the reasons why I came up with this title, uh The Magic of Food, because you know, uh Sir Arthur Clark said it well, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. And the greatest technology in the universe is nature. So nature is built in a way for these significantly pharmacologically active compounds to circulate in our bodies in an uh inactive form. So they they showed uh back in, I think it was 2004, uh, quite convincingly that uh, for example, when mitochondria get damaged, they start released, causing the release of glucuronidase. This is the end an enzyme that that breaks that bond between uh flavonoid like quercetin and the glucuronide. So it breaks that, we absorb into the cell uh the the uh flavonoid, and this is where it's the true magic occurs. It's not that it's so much of a direct antioxidant, but it increases our own production of uh of antioxidants, and that's the real magic. So it's all these uh downstream actions on uh genetic expression and uh our own production of beneficial compounds and inhibition of pro-inflammatory compounds. It's a beautiful dance. We're very lucky to have this safeguard. And the bottom line is that our health is improved by by flooding our bodies with these beneficial compounds. They're very safe, and when our body needs them, uh they're there to be to be utilized. You know, I'm 68 years old. I've been at this a long time. Uh I I discovered uh natural approaches to health and healing when I was 19 years old, so almost almost 50 years. And I had an epiphany when I was uh studying physics, when I saw a prism and I saw uh the all the different uh uh colors in the spectrum, and it occurred to me that uh you know food has a lot of colors. So I was one of the first advocates of this rainbow diet, and uh I have on a concerted effort flooded my body with plant pigments for uh almost 50 years, and I think that that's one of the the secrets to my health, uh vitality, and longevity.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Well, uh our listeners can't see you. Uh I can because we have the video aspect of this, and I can honestly say I cannot believe that you're 68 years old, and I want you to email me exactly whatever you're taking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

I'll send you the link. I have uh at drmurie.com, I have a list of uh my personalized supplement program, and I invest in health. I I probably even though I get these products uh you know at it uh at virtually cost, uh, you know, I'm still spending 500, 600 bucks a month on on dietary supplements, and I just think it's a good investment. And and uh, you know, I keep adding things uh to it all the time. Uh you know, my my latest uh uh compound that I'm really uh bullish on and want to uh talk to people about is ergothionine, which are major uh dietary sources, mushrooms. And virtually all mushrooms contain a fair amount of ergothionine. Uh shiitake, mitake uh uh are among the tops, Rishi as well. But this compound, ergothionine, it's a single amino acid, and it exerts a lot of the same benefits that people are aware of that glutathione produces. But glutathione is a tripeptide, it contains three amino acids, and uh it's an example of what I'm talking about in terms of uh peptides in nature. Uh but ergothionine is really uh uh an interesting compound. It uh it exerts many of the same benefits that that glutathione is uh exerting. And as I uh said, mushrooms are our primary dietary source. And we talk a lot about blue zones and areas of increased longevity. You can make a very strong case that uh longevity in different populations is based upon the intake of mushrooms. And uh uh studies have shown that even modest mushroom consumption can produce significant effects in longevity in in uh in populations. So uh I think uh you know, Dr. Bruce Ames, one of the most famous scientists of the of the 20th uh century and into the 21st century, uh, referred to it as the longevity vitamin, and for good reason it has this uh longevity promoting effect, as does many other recently discovered compounds, you know, PQQ, pyroquinoline quinone, uh, I think will someday be granted uh vitamin status, and it works in conjunction with coenzyme Q10 in wondrous ways in promoting mitochondrial health. And uh this is another supplement that uh that I like to talk about as well, because uh it's found in intergalactic dust, and life on this planet is dependent upon PQQ. It's found uh in intergalactic dust, and it may be the the real spark of life, and it's it it has some pretty darn amazing uh health benefits. So I think it'll be be uh an up-and-coming longevity new. It's been out now for for quite a while, at least 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

What do you make, Doctor? Of uh we see this a lot too in uh coverage uh of the supplement industry. Supplement stacking, which is kind of what we're talking about. We but now it has a name, it has a cool name. Uh but uh what are the pros and cons of supplement stacking? I mean, you you you you this is a real buzz, you know, buzz phrase on the internet. Um and it's largely dominated by you know influencers who are you know sharing their supplement stacks. Um good thing, bad thing, something that's always been around. Um you say you've you take a probably a fair amount of supplements.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah, um uh I take a I take a ton of things. I take nearly 30 supplements a day.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

And uh uh I I think intelligent stacking uh makes great sense. There's synergy among these compounds, and it it goes beyond one plus one equaling three. We see dramatic uh increased uh benefits with uh these interactions among these these uh these compounds. They don't work as isolated compounds in many instances. They work as part of a system. So if you if you take the full system and uh uh if we if we take a look at everything that our body can benefit from, that system is enormous, uh, you're gonna see uh additive or synergistic effects. So I'm a big fan of that. You just have to be smart about it. Uh and uh um, you know, the things that we're concerned about are maybe excess levels of certain minerals and vitamins. But uh, you know, in terms of uh these physiological uh enhancers, uh, I think there's every good reason to take advantage of them in supplemental form. Uh I I I just I just developed uh a product in my own product line uh called Mediterranean Actives, and I'm very excited about it because when you start looking at the the uh uh equivalent levels of getting some of these phytonutrients in foods, it's it's it's amazing. I mean, you you for you know we can put in a capsule uh the equivalent level of phytochemical, important phytochemicals from all these Mediterranean foods, uh, but you you would not be able to consume them. I mean, we can provide uh equivalents to you know a thousand uh uh grapes, we can uh we you know we can provide the equivalent to uh you know 10,000 olives, we can provide the equivalents to uh huge amounts from our artichokes consumption, and and and so on and so on, tomatoes, etc. So I think it's a way to concentrate some of the uh health benefits in a very easily consumed manner. And uh, you know, we've been doing that a long time in our industry. And if you look at what I take, yeah, you know, you're you need that foundation of all your essential nutrients, vitamins, minerals, uh omega-3 fatty acids, uh, vitamin D3, and a good plant-based antioxidant. Those are my foundation supplements. But you know, we got to take advantage of all these uh other uh compounds and uh you know uh uh creatine, uh flavonoids, uh carotenoids, uh uh various uh uh amino acids and peptides and and all these other physiological enhancers. It's it just makes a lot of sense in my mind if you if you want to maximize your health, if you want to give your body uh the best chance of functioning uh at an advanced age, if you want to protect your brain. Uh uh you know, our brain is the most metabolically active tissue in our body. And so if we don't For some of us, for some of us, if we don't take care of it, uh we don't protect it and enhance it, it's it's gonna it's gonna atrophy, it's gonna shrink, it's gonna uh uh degenerate. And uh we don't want that. We want to be vibrant uh into our later years. You know, I I I when I look at uh long-lived people, the one uh one guy that really uh uh amazes me is Dick Van Dyke. I saw a video of him. He had his hundredth birthday uh a few months ago, and he's out there dancing. You know, it's just amazing. He's still a great dancer. He's he's fluid, he's he's got flexibility, he's got rhythm, it's and he's laughing. And uh I think I think we can all learn a lot from from uh from that man.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And I'm and we need to we need to know what his supplement stack is.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Uh yeah, well, I think a big part of that is laughter. I think uh, you know, laughter is the best medicine. And and that's the thing. I mean, uh uh supplements are important, but they are just that. They're designed to be used to support a healthy lifestyle, uh getting enough sleep, exercising, uh, meditating, all the good stuff, and avoiding the the bad uh lifestyle factors. You have to have a positive mental attitude, you have to learn to laugh and uh and have emotional intelligence. Uh and then you have to have a healthy diet. You you can't be uh eating poorly and expecting supplements to save the day. Uh you've got to still eat a healthy, healthy diet. So uh those all those are yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

I well, I was just gonna say words of wisdom for sure. And uh getting back to my earlier observation, um, if you're 68 years old, um boy, you know what you're doing. So we we really do we really do appreciate you coming on on our podcast and sharing these insights, Doctor. Um, I'm sure that our listenership will really uh find what you've what you've said today insightful, and we thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Well, thank you. And uh I want to encourage anyone in our industry to reach out to me if if if uh if they have a question. I'm very uh magnanimous and gracious with uh with my uh time and expertise. We're part of a movement that's really important and we're all on the same team. So uh if people want to reach out to me, they they can they can do so.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Dr. Michael Murray, we thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

My pleasure.